Swamped with stuff right now… Will upload the direct downloads inc. last weeks when I get some spare time…
Chapter 522: Read Online
Filed under Kingdom
Tagged as release
You’re the best!
turnip farmers and sense scans you guys rock
Thanks as always.
thanks for the early release 😀
Not from me, but isn’t the title odd? Because why would the left wing feel despair? Right now we’re looking at Qin’s left wing, and Zhao’s right wing.
Another error someone spotted. Page 10, last text box. Perhaps it should be “would be as good as lost FOR the Zhao” rather than TO the Zhao. “Lost to the Zhao” implies it’s the Zhao’s gain.
I agree . For is better. I don’t bother to change errors unless they are major though. e.g. incorrect names, meaning is completely wrong or unless there are a lot of errors in a chapter e.g. 4 or more minor errors.
Kisui recovers. No shin yet. Mouten show!
I had Kisui confused with.. Batei maybe? whoever went straight at Mouten. Guess he was smarter than that.
I doubt Riboku will come and save him… Kisui’s right, they’re basically on even footing now. Except for Mouten, the dagger soon to be at Kisui’s throat.
Oh and re: chapter title, by default we’re looking at the field from one direction. It is Zhao’s right, but it would be extremely confusing to switch from calling it right to left depending on which army we’re discussing, hell, there are already eighteen billion characters, Mr. Hara is probably trying to save us all a bit of mental bandwidth.
Thanks for the chapter
Still waiting for Riboku to show his hand….
Thank you so much 😀
Thanks for the chapter!
Oh Mouten is still alive and sneaky! Looks like Makou can’t pincer Batei but Makou might get his ass biten by Batei. However, Shin can strike now and get his ass whoop while holding a glaive? LOL!
Mouten played his hand well, but make no mistake this is because Kisui is fairly incompetent and slow to react.
It isn’t clever for cavalry to retreat when attacked – they are terrible at defense. Attacking in waves is normal when you are dealing with tens of thousands of soldiers. You need to do it simply to give room to maneuver and so that one guy tripping doesn’t take down columns of following soldiers. The first wave are shock troops – they create a hole or weakness.
But Kisui is right about one thing – IRL wherever Mouten attacks, the Zhao are toast. You don’t need equal numbers if you manage to pincer an enemy.
Probably Mr. Hara is showing Kisui’s weakness in order to demonstrate the difference between Ousen’s army and Kanki’s. I mean, Kanki’s commanders couldn’t deal with Kisui at all and now he looks like a child against Makou and Mouten… I don’t like it very much tho, seems too easy for Ousen and he is facing Riboku here, in real life Riboku had to be killed before Qin could take down Zhao, and he didn’t move yet, despite the fact that he may loose his right wing in the opening day.
He will probably make a move on the next chapter, that or the autor is loosing his touch.
I feel like defending Mr. Hara! When it was Kisui vs. Kanki, it wasn’t actually Kisui vs. Kanki. It was Kesha Vs. Kanki, until Shin killed Kesha. Then, Kanki chose not to attack Kisui, having figured out that Kisui was fighting not to win, but to protect his people. Kanki illustrated a point the most famous general of this era made in real life- the best generals win a battle without stepping on the field. Remember, he beat Kisui without ever even having to field his army against Kisui. He withdrew, and beat Kisui psychologically.
It is true, that under Kesha, Kisui did a really good job… but, even if we call that better than the job he’s doing now, which I’ll grant you- that was his home turf. And, his men were fighting for their families survival. That does matter.
I forget who, during the last chapter, said “why are you all so harsh on Kisui?” I’m beginning to agree! It’s not like he’s lost. He fell into a trap, realized it, took damage aka loss of troops, but at that point didn’t panic, regrouped, and is settling in for a longer, even grind. But to a degree, didn’t he have to treat Mouten seriously?
The subtext of this chapter was: Mouten realized, as much as Ousen or moreso, that Kisui would regroup and recover, leaving Mouten to be Qin’s trump card. Without Mouten having realized this, its not at all a lock that Qin would now have any advantage on the left… and they’ve disadvantaged their center to get this far.
If this battle of the left doesn’t go Qin’s way, remember that Ousen has now removed a significant amount of troops from his left, where he and Riboku are going to square off. Riboku hasn’t even begun yet- at least, not in the narrative we’ve seen so far. This is far from Qin’s victory, on the battle or even on the left flank of the battle. The outcome on the left will depend on Mouten, and we are all rather counting on him winning, because, well, in the end, we all know Qin takes China. But even so, whether Mouten wins or loses, this is like the opening of a chess match. Its far from over, its barely begun.
We are “being so harsh” on Kisui because he made mistakes a junior officer shouldn’t. Winning/losing/recovering don’t change that. And yes, he had to take Mouten seriously, but he did it both too late and over reacted.
In order, from the perspective of Qin directions:
1 He knew there were only a small number of Qin soldiers ahead and hills & forest to the left, but he never scouted. That is, the situation doesn’t look right, but he didn’t use his enormous advantage in man power to check out the situation. The right has some woods, but the Zhao center is there.
2 He never set out a skirmish line to his left nor set our a cavalry screen, with the mass of cavalry behind. Because Qin using cavalry to ambush from the forest was a real danger, but a five deep infantry line gives the rest time to react without taking away from the attack up front. Cavalry are also terrible at defending themselves, so if Zhao had held cavalry back, Mouten is DOA.
3 He finds Mouten retreating clever, when again, cavalry do not defend themselves well. Have I pointed out that the Zhao are the leading cavalry power within China at the time?
4 He has no command of Batei, also an overly simplistic general.
5 With his 30K men, he is so afraid of under reacting to a few thousand men attacking from the left that he turns his entire army. This is in spite of the fact that the larger Qin army is now to his left and infantry do not turn and reorder themselves well. This is especially true with pole arms, but even in WWII the ideal was to get to the side of the enemy and “roll them up”.
6 He cannot command the entire field, but sees only one problem at a time. He doesn’t see how one action can lead to another, he does not see coordinated action between groups. He takes action without consideration that anything else can happen.
There really is no defense for these basic mistakes for somebody who made it to general, much less in command of a wing. Recovering the situation doesn’t matter – basic mistakes were made.
Really the only thing saving him after the Qin hit him is the writer. IRL if 5K soldiers hit the side of the Zhao wing, it’s pretty much over.
Sure the chapter is to show Mouten’s eye for strategy, but it really shows Kisui’s total lack of grasp. And it is completely total.
I’ll point out that the Japanese have really studied the Warring states era & I’m sure they have history professors & war gamers just like the US. I’m sure they could find people to help them out with plausible scenarios. Like Mouten waiting until the Zhao are in the plains & using fire arrows to set the grass on fire. Infantry panics, cohesion is lost, & Mouten attacks.
The Zhao attempt to save Gyou is laughable too. The Zhao seem to think the goal is to reach the city, no matter what, when the goal is to life the siege. Getting to the city by itself means nothing. By attacking piecemeal they are easily defeated, as they deserve to be. IIRC they have 11K-13K with cavalry. They can commence night raids & harassment. They can hit & run at night attacks on Kankei’s soldiers at one point while Gyou sallies. Burn Qin supplies, since this is a war of resources.
TL;DR – Kisui never considered terrain, never properly utilized his resources, can’t consider things from his opponents POV, doesn’t have command of his troops, greatly overreacts, and has a narrow mental field of view.
Plus his mama’s ugly.
completely agree with you, when you see actual stratagems like the empty fortress made by sima yi and zhuge liang in the 3 war states after the warring period you could say that sima yi is an imbecile to have made a retreat when he is with 150k strong agains’t an empty city with open gates, but the thing is that zhuge liang made him appear that way with the thinking he made sima think in that situation. Ousen is just such a monster that makes Kisui who was acknowledged by Riboku himself to look like a child inside his strategies
Since Mouten has fast cavalry, slow cavalry, and infantry, he will probably do a 3 pronged attack to try to kill Kisui… but I will be really disappointed if Riboku’s reinforcements doesn’t arrive first because it was obvious during the initial placements that Ousen had placed a trap on the left side…
Now that I’ve thought more about it, Mouten’s safer bet is actually to target the 10k men with Batei that is holding up the third/fourth waves. (10k+1k vs 10k currently) Add Mouten’s 5k men and It would be a classic front and rear pincer totaling 15k men, destroying that 10k army with Batei in a matter of minutes. After that, they can focus on the remaining 20k men with Kisui.
Flanking to kill Kisui first is much riskier, since first of all you have 10k men held up, so it is a 20k versus 10k men situation, Even adding 5k would only make it 15k vs 20k, even with a successful flank it’s much riskier math than 15k versus 10k plus rear attack to boot. Divide and conquer right…
Due to the time spent building up Riboku, I figured he has to survive as a real threat until the end. Karin is too ridiculous to be a final boss.
Looking at real life though, I figured Ousen’s preparations to mirror what really happened. At the least it might have forced Riboku to leave Zhao, the second Heaven to do so. That would have set up a reasonable win for Ousen. Even if the replacement commander has real potential as seen by Ousen, it is reasonable for Ousen to win.
It is a general weakness in entertainment that to make somebody look strong/smart/clever they instead make others look weak/dumb/clueless. That’s just beating up on a child.
I dunno dude, here in us we have a saying: ‘Armchair quarterbacking is easy.” meaning: its very easy to sit and judge either Mr. Hara or fictional characters. I can watch an MMA fight and say: oh, how did he not see that headkick coming?” But, when faced with actual, very amateur competition (not that I did much at all) I was hit with stuff I totally should have seen coming. That’s how conflict is, and I’m sorry, strategy games are great and all, but just because I’ve beaten mass effect 3 numerous times on ‘insanity’ level does not mean I’d make a great soldier/general. It means I’m good at Mass Effect 3, and kind of enjoy shredding it.
I would assume anyone who’s faced real life or death conflict would be more generous to a general who made this ‘mistake,’ because in the end, these guys have to make split second decisions based on a great deal less information than we, the readers, have at our disposal.
So I don’t know, be as harsh as you like. I will point out, re: Chu, you are assuming Karen is their best. I make the opposite assumption, I think Chu will be the main rival of the series, and it’s been heavily hinted that they are incredibly deep in commanders. We’ve seen evidence of that. If so, its an assumption to think Karen is their best, I doubt she is.
Something else occurred to me- recalling Kisui’s narrative from the battle of five hills, this may actually be the first time he’s fought in this type of battle. Wasn’t he the one who stayed near home to defend his home, always? The battle of five hills was likely his first, of that scale, right? This would be his second. Either way, he’s way less experienced than anyone else in his position on the field, and again, Riboku didn’t have too many candidates to pull from. Perhaps we can chalk his smallish errors up to inexperience.
Well in against the Kanki army; Kisui firstly had a) the home turf /defenders advantage – he had Cavalry that could descend cliff faces and this beat Marion/Kokoyu. Likewise in Baitei’s case, the limited size of the battlefield meant that his point and click style of combat “brute force” is enough to carry the day.
Kisui likewise saved Keisha’s ass. Likewise that he’s held against Makou’s wave tactics even though his army apparently is the strongest in offence in the whole Ousen army. I have no problem with sometimes scouting not working – Alexander the Great walked his troops into an ambush when invading Persia, and he’s pretty much the one of the best in history. The difference between good and great is about overcoming adversity – cause you can’t plan for everything.
Kisui has made all the right calls after Ousen essentially played his hand, he’s also noted of the potential damage Mouten can cause.
I think we over exaggerate the grandness of strategy as a sign of level of generalship where in fact; the difference between a 10,o00man general and just a thousand man commander isn’t there breadth of knowledge in strategy but their ability to command their men just as effectively in the great difference in numbers.
Stuff like the Rindou and Ribokus whirlpool defence are just stuff of fiction but as readers we see that as “truely amazing generalship” when it’s not really the case.
Sure you can say maybe he shouldn’t be in this predicament in the first place, but again
Yep… and the flipside of super-fancy tactics, like the whilrwind defense: when they fail, they fail spectacularly. The “butterfly effect” rules the battlefield- recall Shin’s first battle, when one scrappy kid breaking through the line, and another scrappy kid creating a wall of corpses- both from the same unit- created a situation that ultimately one Qin the day.
A general must not only plan for what he knows could happen, but what he does not know could happen. In other words, the more you rely on a perfect strategy, the more dangerous x factors that shake things up become… if you notice, all the great ‘pure strategists’ on Riboku’s side are dead, in my view because, as a force, Zhao was gimmick-heavy. Kesha was great, but when Kanki waited him out, he lost his sh*t.
Sure, all the above is way more true in real life than in Kingdom, but if Kingdom ignored that truth, in my opinion, it’ be way, way, way less cool.
Thanks from Brazil !
I really like the tone of the translations in this chapter.. very enthralling. Thank you so much as always
Thanks and no need to hurry with the download stuff. Just being able to read such a great chapter is great!
thank you, btw about the title that kind of odd title ” Left wing despair” perhaps what he meant was the despair that had been cause by the left wing, I don’t know 🙂
like Osi said
“by default we’re looking at the field from one direction. It is Zhao’s right, but it would be extremely confusing to switch from calling it right to left depending on which army we’re discussing, hell, there are already eighteen billion characters, Mr. Hara is probably trying to save us all a bit of mental bandwidth.”
Can’t thank you enough for your work on this series!
My guess is that when Mouten is attempting attack to get Kisui head, Riboku’s hidden troop will come to assist and the battle become stalemate for this left wing 😀 (it’s obvious that he should be able to forsee this… otherwise he could not take down Ouki :< ) then the focus switch the the center and right wing…
More than likely the case! I mean Riboku knew that there was a trap on the Kisui flank – he called it from the beginning…either there’s a trap or this is a ruse; either way he had to push Kisui and call the bluff.
As Mouten does the finishing strike on Kisui, Kaine shoots her arrow at Mouten. Grampa dives to take the arrow, Kisue falls.
Thanks for the chapter!!! Great start of the war
I reread a few chapters back- always a good idea, because week to week you forget nuances- and if anyone is still reading this stuff, some things I noticed:
Ousen likely chose Mouten for his cavalry, intelligence, and more importantly because Kisui/Riggan had no idea who he was and didn’t expect him to be a total badass
It was Riboku who initially ordered Kisui to attack all out, not Kisui jumping the gun
It was Batei who decided to try chasing Mouten around once it became clear he was a good commander, Kisui tried to stop him, but, they’re not that experienced an army and apperantly have a slight chain of command issue.
Batei is strong, but is really Kisui’s #2 because someone, probably shin, killed his right hand man
Kisui committed his infantry when it became clear that if he didn’t, Mouten may just bleed him slowly… because he’d lost a bunch of cavalry
Ousen vs. Riboku- its not at all surprising Riboku made that order, unless you assume there’s a good choice when facing a tactically brilliant commander. his other alternative was have the Zhao right sit on their ass on the left field, effectively allowing 5000 to stalemate 30 000 and also effectively nullifying Zhao’s numeric advantage
always a good idea! haha
Kyokai actually killed Kisui’s right hand man Ryuutou. Then if Batei dies Kissui’s army’s power will be reduced in half according to Mouten.
That’s right… I love this series because the more you look into it, the more sense it makes! Batei was just their cavalry guy whose main job was to do exactly what he tried to do here- when they gave the word, roll in like a killer wave and swing his big ax. Only, now that he’s #2, he may need to expand his thinking and may not be able to
What’s interesting too is that though Kissui’s a tactician he also showed some brawn while rescuing Keisha during his maiden battle against Qin.
You guys are fuckin’ legends, thank you all for your hard work! Great chapter, Kisui already know that is going to be a wave moved by the will of Ousen (or Mouten… how it grows that kid!)… it will be interesting to see the role of Shin and his army in this war.
Thank you for delivering every chapter without fail
Any chance new update will come out tonight? I have seen the spoiler and eager to see the translation. Hopefully you guys are in good condituon 🙂
I want my weekly dose. I need to know what is going on with my army.
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